Arizona Citizens Supporting Honest Representative Government At All Levels
We have been systematically talking to State Committeemen about how they plan to vote for AZGOP Chairman. What we hear most of the time is some version of, “I don't really like any of them.” Understood. All come with considerable baggage.
Let's take Frank Thorwald. First, he teamed up with Tim Horn to get a plan of action to run on. Then he ignored an important meeting and just didn't show up with no expanation. Character counts! He seems not to be campaigning for the job, preferring, we think, to believe he will waltz into the job on the reputation of Robert Graham. He is “good friends” with Graham and we are told Graham recruited him to run, promising him the donor list. That is a cherished list! He sits on a Board of which Graham is Chairman. The company is a bit of a nothing company but that isn't the point. Or maybe it is. Small, nothing companies seek out their friends to sit on their boards because there are no others to do it. If you believe that birds of a feather actually do stick together, then a good measure of Frank is the friends he hangs with. Like Robert Graham. A peek at Graham should give you pause.
Here are a few facts about Robert Graham:
He was charged with money laundering in California when he took a charitable 501c3 PAC (tax deductible) and moved the money to a political 501c4 (non-deductible) allowing donors to donate to the c3, deduct the donation, effectively skirting the law on what are and are not deductible donations. Illegal. He used the money to lobby for an issue in California. He was charged. He was fined $1,000,000 to get rid of the case so as not to have it on his record. You can search Robert Graham on this site and find plenty of articles we ran at the time, 2012 forward.
He along with an associate purchased a closed paper mill in Groveton, New Hampshire. The city fathers were told he would demo the buildings for salvage and then build or sell to someone who would build on the land. The mill was a major eyesore and the city fathers wanted it gone. Now. Several years later, the mill still stood and they sued Graham. Eventually, someone else came along recently and built on the land. That was close to a decade it stood as a monument to failure in the middle of a very small town.
He is banned for life from working in the securities business in Massachusetts, the land of broken laws. He convinced an elderly artist in MA to invest her entire life savings that were in two trusts – one for her disabled brother and another for her even more elderly mother. It was $400,000. He used the money to buy the paper mill in Groveton that sat for years and she lost every penny. She had signed a form required by law that she had a low risk tolerance. Meaning, CDs were her investment of choice, most likely.
He money laundered-funds while Chairman of AZGOP. AZRA members combed through his financial reports and found several very obvious problems in the managing of money. The AZRA Treasurer filed a complaint with the FEC. The complaint was pulled, reputed by John McCain. But after McCain was out of the picture, the AZGOP was fined for their misdeeds and will be fined again in the coming months, according to published reports. Not one FEC report he filed was accurate. The FEC doesn't have a sense of humor!
It was also suspected that Graham was using AZGOP money for his personal use. That has not yet been proven but still might be.
Graham was notorious for changing the locks on the AZGOP doors after he shooed all the conservative volunteers, who had been there for quite some time, right out the door. He hired people to take jobs that had paid $0 to $60K a year and paid them $120,000 a year, squandering funds intended for candidates. And no one answered a phone for four years!
He took RNC money in 2016 that was earmarked for electing Trump and used it primarily to get McCain elected.
There are other serious problems with the FEC reports from the four years Graham was there that still plague the AZGOP.
So what does that have to do with Frank Thorwald? Birds of a feather... Frank may not be as dishonest as Graham but he's buddies with Graham and the last, or nearly last, thing AZGOP needs is Graham back influencing decisions.
That brings us to Jonathan Lines. Graham tagged him at the last minute in 2015 to run for AZGOP treasurer and only after others filed intent-to-run forms. Graham claimed he barely knew Lines but we posted photos with them together at Lines parties. Graham couldn't afford to allow a non-advocate to take a look at the books so he brought in Lines at the last minute, who did not even know, so he said, that AZGOP was in hock up to their ears in outstanding loans. Neither did he report that until it came out from others. Birds of a feather... We wonder, were misappropriated funds involved? Just curious.
But let's not stop there with Lines. He kept the doors locked and no one ever answered the phone or returned phone calls. He was the ghost of Christmas past, never seen except at social events. Someone else was running the store with little to no oversight by the “chairman.” What happened in the 2018 elections? That's right. They helped no one who needed it. Money for Secretary of State candidate? Superintendent candidate? Legislators who were in close elections? Nope, nope and nope. They even worked against Maria Syms in LD28 and got a democrat in that seat. They are thrilled.
This past fall, he orchestrated the re-organizational meeting in Yuma in secret. The bulk of the PCs didn't know it was coming, were not given a chance to be nominated for State Committeemen or officers and received their call letters the day of the meeing, some never got one. These are supposed to be sent 10 days prior to the meeting but most chairmen alert their members a few MONTHS in advance. He refused to allow nominations from the floor seeing as how he had already stacked the deck in his favor and then, he had his two sons count the ballots. Nothing to see here, folks. Business as usual. We also covered Jonathan Lines extensively two years ago and you can find out more by searching "Jonathan Lines" on this site.
Really, Gov Ducey. Do you really think Lines deserves re-election? His endorsement may mean the fix is in and if so, whoever trails Lines better call for a roll call vote! By district.
That brings us to Kelli Ward. She has been campaigning hard. But is she the right person for the job? Some think so. They supported her bid for Senator, twice. Between the two above, she stands out in the minds of many. We don't believe she is as conservative as she claims and that is due to the fact that we checked her voting record at the State Senate. She didn't have any outstanding bills and didn't always vote conservative. HB2184 still stands out in our minds. More HERE That was her bill that was given up as a striker to try to strip the Superintendent of her authority. Fortunately, that failed. Search "Kelli Ward 2184" for more info. Her biggest problem is her husband, Michael. Reportedly, he uses several personas on Facebook and has conversations about Kelli between these personas and uses highly inappropriate commentary about people he/they/he doesn't like. Odd and duplicitous, at least. Recently, he was arrested for spitting in the eye of a Ward volunteer. He has done that before and been cited. He has quite a temper that goes off on a whim, a loose cannon, as does she, and anyone could end up a target. Yes, spouses in this position do matter. The AZGOP chairman will be traveling and meeting important political figures at fancy events. Word spreads fast in politics. Many have told us it is her husband that will keep them from voting for her. Others have their reasons. Annoying the RNC results in no money to the AZGOP for the 2020 election. Let that percolate into your thinking.
Our take is that she is the best of the three, but...
Part II to come.
Nan, were you? Who says Mom is educated, enthusiastic etc.? Did you watch Kelli being brought up? Did you not see all the videos that went around showing that exact thing? It was in some kind of public room where I believe Ward was set to speak. It was clearly inadvertent but wow, KW went ballistic. Someone caught it on their cell phone. Research that. It was on FB and stand alone going round. I got it by email.
Pat J: good one, yes, they all want YOU to produce proof of what you say but they haven't produced any proof of what they say. All the docs about Shamley, they have produced none about Ward here. Different rules for them and you. Let me think, what does that remind me of? This conversation has now entered the twilight zone.
Good to know. Thanks.
Jaspergoat and Pat: Her Mom is a Doctor, I have worked with her many times on different events, etc. I believe you are exaggerating facts about Kelli. As to the cell phone video I was not there and am very skeptical about such evidence. I do not know either one of you personally so I am basing my comments on your comments here.
I never said there are different rules. Apparently there are because Doyle was not able to put his name out there until now. I fortunately have met Doyle but how many people have who are state committeemen? That is why I made the comment his name came out too late not knowing his district would wait so long. Lesson learned.
To quote Pat J: Prove it
to nearly quote Patricia: I didn't see it myself and you have no proof therefore, it's not true
Of course you are establishing different rules: you don't believe Pat J because she/he didn't put out documents to satisfy you both but make claims yourself without documentation. You are "very skeptical about such evidence" proving that you also have a condition upon which you would believe someone else's claim because a video isn't suitable. Then we are supposed to believe yours on your word (which BTW, I do. I don't think anyone on this thread are liars and if they got eyewitness info, I think that's suitable because your info is just eye witness) Then you dismiss a qualified candidate because of an arbitrary rule you seem to wish he had broken.
SMHIW (scratching my head in wonder) But this conversation is going nowhere so thanks for the ride.
Jaspergoat: I apologize for not making it clear I am writing why I support Kelli. I know her. I know what she has accomplished. I want her to be our chairman so we can get the Arizona Grass Roots into the AzGOP. Why not outline what you like about your candidate? Maybe you already did and I missed it.
Jasper, I didn't say specifically that I don't believe you Pat J. I inferred that hits on a candidate I take with skepticism. Too me there is a big difference.
I form my own opinions. You Jasper often make allegations of others that well do your research and it like saying if you do not arrive at what I [Jasper] conclude then you haven't done your research and thus a dumb critter.
We have an opportunity to dump J Lines. To do that it would behoove us all, I think, to employ a good dose of pragmatic thinking. In the end however each of us will vote our own thinking and that is just the way it is and should be, in my humble opinion.
Posted in Briefs on Saturday, Jan 19, should answer the hot button question of why Doyel Shamley did not get on the ballot. In our view, AZGOP should make an exception for those districts who, for whatever reason, did not have their reorganizational meetings until after the deadline, set arbitratily by AZGOP. Navajo County also did not have their meeting until the same week. Weather there has been terrible and that could have played into the decision.
We think it is unreasonable not refuse to investigate this candidate because he is a write-in. We did not ask him that question because we don't think it is a salient question or indicates anything about his credentials to be AZGOP Chairman.
Thank you AFA editors and producers.
Folks it is time to stop jaw boning among our selves. How many State Committeemen/women follow this line of debate? How many PCs follow any of the state party melodrama? Based on my experience - - very few.
So to all of you - what are you doing to inform your State Committee/women solid voter information at the AZGOP elections on 1/26/2019? Do you know how many Legislative Districts are (in part or wholly) within Maricopa county? How many AFA readers indicated a LIKE to Part I of this discussion? Seven as of 1/19/2019 at 9;30 am.
The AZGOP elections will spin based on the proxy abuse running amok in Maricopa county.
So what am I doing? This entire Part I and the next Part II (minus the comments) will be distributed to about 100 PCs in LD14 about 30 to 35 are State Committeemen. LD14 includes 3 entire counties and the Eastern portion of Pima county. I would have more than 100 PCs except for Graham county who believes an LD is just a political club. I can only hope enough emails are sent about down here in S.E. AZ so that 100 state committeemen are well informed as to pro/con on AZGOP chair candidates.
Conclusion will be posted on Part II.
I am NOT one who thinks our PC's here in Yavapai County are NOT informed. The numbers of PC's are not up to snuff but I put that issue squarely on yavgop. Maricopa seems always the hot spot of everything. I view the happenings in Maricopa as a what our county must take hard lessons from.
I do agree with the 'jawboning' comment and instead use common sense and peppered with being pragmatic.
Please read our posting rules in the left column on our Home page. We just don't have tolerance for insulting each other. Intelligent people can form intelligent posts. Posts that insult will be removed. Thanks.
Thanks for the reminder, it drove me to go over all my posts on this thread and I determined the post content i made were not insulting and further concluded they were intelligently given and in a "humble" or diplomatic way.