[Editor:  This response from Sen Barto is nearly word for word the same response that came to us from Sen. Sylvia Allen.  These foolish lawmakers are parroting Constantine Querard's talking points.  We forgive CQ - he's getting paid to represent the NPV movement.  But Senators are getting paid by taxpayer funds to represent THEM.  Everyone who opposes this effort to convert America into France or Italy - a democracy instead of the Republic that makes America exceptional - needs to call the Senators at azleg.gov  Tell the person who answers the phone NO on SB1218 and HB2456.  We have been told that CQ is getting his side to burn up their phones over and over calling and saying YES.]

   
 
Nancy BartoLori M Hack and 3 others posted in Arizona Republican LD 15.
 
   
Nancy Barto
February 8 at 10:05pm
 
National Popular Vote? I opposed the idea for years until I understood its potential to actually provide this country's voters a chance to be heard - and to win. 

The legislative proposal DOES change Arizona's current way of awarding our state's Presidential electors from Arizona's winner-take-all presidential electors being based upon Arizona's popular vote to awarding all 11 according to the national popular vote total. Example: if this compact were to be in place for the upcoming election this means if say Rubio wins the national popular vote, all the states who belong to the NPV Compact would award their electors to the Republican (Rubio) rather than to the Democrat. - even a state like California would deposit all 55 of their electors to Rubio even though Hillary probably would have won that state's popular vote. The reverse would also be true (Arizona's 11 would go to the Democrat if Hillary won even if our state voted Republican). 


The tradeoff is influence for identity. Right now, we’re a “red state” and proud of it. That said, our state and our issues get ignored and that is terrible for our state and our nation. None of us went to an Electoral College party to celebrate our electors voting for Romney because we were in mourning that day because Obama was elected President. So what real good does our red state “identity” do for us? We would be much better served as a state to have actual influence over the President and the Administration. And yes, this is how we can capture California’s 55 electoral votes... 


Here are the (true) major points in a nutshell: 


1. The bill makes no changes to the U.S. Constitution, the Arizona 

Constitution, or the Electoral College. NONE. 

2. It only changes the method by which Arizona’s electors are chosen, 

and that power was given to the State Legislature in Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution. 

3. In fact, that power was considered a critical power by James Madison 

(see Federalist 45) to keep the states strong and the federal government weak. 

4. The current winner-take-all system of awarding electors results in 

more than 40 states, INCLUDING ARIZONA, being ignored in the general election. 

5. More importantly, because Arizona can be ignored in the election, it 

is also generally ignored when policies are crafted by the federal government. Presidents care how their policies will effect swing voters in swing states, NOT how their policies will effect voters or the country as a whole. 

6. By passing National Popular Vote, the Arizona Legislature will 

accomplish several things: First, it will make it so that a voter in Arizona is as important to candidates as a voter in Ohio, Virginia, or Florida is today. Second, because the change is a simple act of legislation, it is easily reversed should the Legislature ever decide it prefers a different method of choosing Arizona’s electors. Third, it will force candidates for President to change the way they campaign (nationally instead of just 7-10 states) and the way they govern (dealing with national issues and pursuing the best interests of the entire country instead of small swing groups). 


Here are two links to more information: National Popular Vote.com videos: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBwhJtk3xv0&list=PLGbqlTjpDNNb2... 

And the book with lots more information if you have the time to read it: 

http://www.every-vote-equal.com/ 


Some main opposition arguments: 


The main thing I keep hearing is we would gut the Electoral College. It doesn't. It merely changes the state's method of awarding their electors. 

That's a power the Founders gave the Legislature ON PURPOSE (Federalist #45). Massachusetts has used it to change its method either 11 or 13 times already. Joining the NPV compact would base our state's electors on the national popular vote rather than our state's winner take all, so that all of our votes count. Here are some other common misconceptions: 


1. By joining the NPV states are “effectively gutting the EC without 

the inconvenience of a Constitutional Amendment.” Nonsense. It represented a shift in how the majority of states wanted to award their electors, but changing how you award your electors in the best interests of your state is the very essence of the Electoral College. State Legislatures would never support a Constitutional Amendment because then they would be locked into the change with almost no way out. 


2. The "mob rule" objection is borne of a lack of understanding of pure 

democracy / direct democracy / mob rule versus a republican form of government. We retain our republican form of government: 


Every state has popular vote elections for their Governors, while still enjoying a republican form of government. James Madison defined the difference thusly ³in a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents.² A direct democracy, the tyranny of the majority, and all the other terms for it refer to a system where the people vote directly on the issues themselves. Imagine a world where there are no legislators or legislation, just a ballot each year with 1,000 questions on it. A republican form of government is where the people elect representatives to serve for fixed terms and to vote on these issues on their behalf. That is not changing. 


3. The Myth of the big cities is also wrong. You will hear this 

example used: "In the 2000 election Gore won the popular vote by a slim margin and Bush won the electoral vote by a slim margin. These are the actual numbers of votes cast for Bush and Gore vs today's electoral college vote. 5 biggest states cast a combined 33,592,283 votes and they had 171 electoral votes. 34 smallest states cast a combined 33,510,662 votes and they had 208 electoral votes. 34 to 5! This is exactly how the framers of the Constitution accommodated “fairness” so that the big cities don’t automatically have all the clout." Wrong. If the NPV had been in place that presidential year, the campaign would have been waged completely differently by both sides. The state of Florida probably would not have been 'ground zero' and the decider of the entire race. 


In addition, this concern about big cities is misplaced for two other 

reasons: 


In short, first, if you really think it is true, then take comfort from the fact that Arizona has 3 of the largest 38 cities in the country (Phoenix, Tucson, and Mesa). If candidates only paid attention to the big cities, Arizona would get a lot of attention and that¹s great for Arizona. Second, it actually isn¹t true because while the largest 50 cities in the country have only about 15% of the population, small-town America (towns/cities with populations of 50,000 or less) also have about 15% of the population. 

Candidates trying to win a national popular vote aren¹t going to be able to afford to skip 15% of the population period. Put another way, 85% of the voters live OUTSIDE of the 50 largest cities. 


Hope this helps.

Views: 600

Replies to This Discussion

    It sounds like the talking points straight out of C Q's position paper. Maybe Nancy needs read up on the opposing position and find out just how dangerous this would be for our Republic! There is a reason this is being pushed by so many Blue States, Chambers and the U.S. Communist Party. Old saying, " you can tell a lot about a person by the company he keeps" could very well apply to this monstrosity.

             Richard Breyer

From everything I have read no real debate happened, especially by we the people and these representatives of ours forgot we are the boss. When fools rush in there is bound to be mayhem and destruction.  I want to know why Nancy Barto  and my two representatives, Sonny Borrelli and Gina Cobb did not let this bill be put on hold for vigorous debate.  I am appalled by the lack of decorum and loyalty by the representatives in Phoenix.

Clarify please.

Nan: we have numerous reports that back up our experience.  Our Representatives have said they will vote YES on this because CQ told them to.  That is not representative government.  Too many of our elected lawmakers worship at the alter of CQ and that is a dangerous situation. He is the political consultant to almost all those who are determined to vote in favor but HE works and gets paid by THEM.  Something is very amiss when a single  political consultant gets paid by the NPV movement to coerce his politicians,  who also pay him, into a very bad vote.  And we wonder what is wrong with government!

Thank you. You substantiated what I thought was going on. I am not that informed as I stay in beautiful Mohave County for the most part.  I would not mind if there was an outreach to the district directors and pcs to debate this issue. At least that would be representative government even though one might wonder how much their representative had considered original intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. For the House to pass this bill without reaching out to those they represent is a putting the cart before the horse; they should have know better and they should feel the sting of retribution.

Everyone - EVERYONE - on this thread MUST call Sen President Andy Biggs TODAY and tell him NO on SB1218.  Here is his phone #: 602-926-4371.  Here is his email address to follow up on the phone call: abiggs@azleg.gov   Be respectful but firm.  We hear from multiple sources that CQ has his tribe sitting on the phones all day doing auto-redial so it looks like a lot of people are calling to tell him to vote YES.  They don't get your phone # and they don't take your name unless you choose to give it.  ACTION is needed.

Sen. Barto,

Instead of regurgitating the proponents talking points and referring people to the thousand page book they wrote with the money from George Soros and friends, why not look at independent sources that do not have a financial stake in the passage. 

The Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, American Legislative Exchange Council for example. 

However, as Republicans, it should be instructive to go to our Republican Party Platform.

Here is the language in Section 3 - We The People of our current Republican Party Platform:

"The Continuing Importance of Protecting the Electoral College

We oppose the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact or any other

scheme to abolish or distort the procedures of the Electoral College.

 

We recognize that an unconstitutional effort to impose

“national popular vote” would be a mortal threat to our federal system

and a guarantee of corruption as every ballot box in every state

would become a chance to steal the presidency."

Senator, do the words "scheme", "unconstitutional", "mortal threat to our federal system", "guarantee of corruption", and "steal the Presidency" in the section describing the outcomes of the NPV not raise warning flags that the propaganda you have been fed may be just that - - propaganda.

I prefer to trust the work of our delegates from Arizona and other states who worked on the language in the Platform Committee and their intensive research into the subject instead of repeating the talking points of a person who is being paid LARGE to ensure its passage in the first state that did not vote for Obama by a minimum of fifteen percentage points.

You are a good legislator, Please do the hard work and look outside the sources provided and or paid for by the proponents.

Good response. Amazing how we stray from the Republican party platform when it is an excellent guide line for us.

Living in "rural AZ" it has been my experience that the politicians pretty much ignore 15% of the population and they win the rural counties anyway.  What is going to change in the rural areas under the NVP that are going to draw the politicians into those areas???  It is because of the parties...... the R and the D behind their name is what gets them elected in rural areas---period!!!

Do we get to abolish the parties???  what else will change enough to get the politicians to pay attention to the rural areas??  

Joanne, I plan to go to Facebook, LD 15 & yet I feel as though I have to ask you why you made the comment about "rural AZ." I guess you could consider that I live in "Rural AZ" (Gila County) & yet I had never had the thoughts that you stated about the politicians pretty much ignoring 15% of the population & winning the rural counties anyway. I feel most fortunate in that I belong to a good T-Party where I live & they keep my husband & me up to snuff on the people who are running for office. And if for some reason these politicians cannot come to us, we go to them.

I have responded to a few of the talking points above directly on the facebook page of LD 15.  Barto has responded.  Others should post there as well. She is paying attention.

Good news.  Sen. Sue Donohue, recently appointed to replace Sen. Kelli Ward, has done her own research (smart woman.  She deserves our support!) and had changed her vote to NO.  Call and congratulate and thank her for her good judgement!!  Nice to find a Senator impervious to CQ's charm!

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