Marijuana - Next legislative nightmare?

[Jack Wilborn]

Since Medical Marijuana and recreational Marijuana are making the news, along with two states that have made recreational Marijuana legal for adults, I thought we should open some kind of dialog about it. I'm hoping that many will give their thoughts, opposition and support.

Since many of us have been indoctrinated by the US Government, let’s start there. Most of the information we receive is from NIDA (National Institute Drug Abuse) and it is their charter to deal with drug abuse, not benefit. Reading the latest "Facts about Marijuana", updated January 2014, we find the NIDA, states that it causes many lung related problems, inflammation, cough, phlegm, chest illness, COPD and a heightened risk of lung infections. It also states that Marijuana smokers, who do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work, because of respiratory illnesses. The NIDA’s position can be found in its entirety at

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana.

This is in conflict with a study done by UCLA which ran from 1985 for 20 years and had over 5100 people in the study. They were expecting some of the above problems, including cancer. They were surprised when they found a lower cancer rate, no irritation in the lungs and those that smoke Marijuana had a less lung related health problems than those that smoked tobacco. In fact their study stated that many had lungs that were more capable after smoking Marijuana than before and did no damage relating to COPD. As an asthmatic, I was also surprised. They believe that it's because of THC and other cannabinoids that have anti-inflammatory and immune suppressing properties. An article on the study is available at:

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/10/study-smoking-marijuana-not-linked-with-lung-damage/.

NIDA is aware of the study, but does not address it. Why do they not address this situation of complete conflict? They also offer no alternative study or reasons for their position or statements. This makes it hard to accept for anyone trying to form an opinion, as NIDA does not provide an acceptable argument. There are some links in the healthland article that is interesting to read and I suggest that you read them. Such as

U.S. Rules That Marijuana Has No Medical Use. What Does Science Say?

I feel that other investigations of Marijuana and its effects, preclude anything supported by the US Government. One should stay with studies from other countries and news feeds which don’t have a preconceived agenda. It is interesting that Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Neurosurgeon, Chief Medical Correspondent, CNN wrote an article "Whey I would say NO to pot" in 2009 but then completely reversed his opinion in a documentary called "Weed". This documentary is available via YouTube. You can also read his statements on "why I changed my mind on Weed" at

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/.

In conclusion, I will state that I was trained by the DEA as a police officer when I was going through the academy for the city of Glendale, Arizona. I found, even then, that the government’s statements were questionable at best and downright baseless in others. I suspect that we will see much on the subject in the coming months and years, with attempts to legalize it as a recreational drug and correct some existing problems with the Medical use of Marijuana.

Please give an opinion, along with what you position is based.

[Jack Wilborn]

You are correct in much of what you say.  Many die from drug interaction and drug abuse.  I also am not going to reach the attainments of Buddhism as I do put things in my body so I am going to get to do the life thing again, until I get it right. As I did not state I don't put anything in my body. That is the Buddhism way, but I also don't run my car off the road to not kill a bird as some of the Buddhist leaders have. Just because I follow a belief system doesn't mean I adhere or could adhere to the complete belief system. I would find it hard to find anyone of any belief that's never violated some part of the system.

The other side of the information has been suppressed and in the 70's they legislated for government departments not to give us any information about any Schedule I drug.

Just because, I say look at the information and find flaws, doesn't mean I want all drugs to be legalized. I see no use for Ecstasy, yet researchers have. I will attempt to find some of the statues that make the government personnel not tell us, I hope that's why they are doing it.

I blame most drug addiction on alcohol as in my experience the discussions I've had with abusers and others, alcohol is usually left out of the questions as they never considered it a drug.

I'm very sorry you have been so touched by drug abuse and I understand your stanch adherence to the law. I too have lost friends to not only drugs but to the enforcement of laws to protect you and me. A good friend of mine was killed, over a joint, the guy felt he was going back to jail, now doing life. I don't blame the joint, just the laws that drove him to that action.  However I still have to say not all items fall under such a wide umbrella.

In the middle east, they behead people for abuse of drugs, they do it yearly. If it worked they wouldn't have to do it yearly as the message would be sent and would not require a yearly beheading of individuals. These are sick people needing help not termination, like abusers here need help not prison that doesn't address their problem.

Did you not read American Pride statement about her and her husband? Do you not feel anything that he had to go through years of narcotics will little relief and now finds much more, not only relief, but sleep, with Marijuana?

We have been able to make great strides in stopping people from smoking tobacco without the use of jail terms.  But our government won't state which is worse, Marijuana or Meth Amphetamines.  About every kid knows that Meth is absolutely the worst and many have died with Meth. Tobacco kills almost a half million people a year in the US, Marijuana none, which seems worse? We at least have a way to attempt to keep kids from tobacco, the same rules don't apply to Marijuana and they sell to any kid.

With this information how are school kids able to trust anything they are told when in front of them is something completely different and quite obvious.  Yet we haven't thrown many tobacco smokers into jail and we've made a great impact on it's use without the prison terms. 

Can't we do the same with Marijuana if you are afraid that smoking it has such dire consequences? Or that children think it's OK, which I do not. It's a drug, like many others, without the death toll that many have, but still a drug.  We must differentiate between them prescription and over the counter, let research advise us of the proper direction and usage and not ban anything to the proper people that do research. If there was ever a scam to the American People it's the Schedule system.

[Pat J]

Rebecca: many of us know someone, kids and adults, who have been harmed or killed by drug use.  The topic of this post is not "drug use" it is "marijuana use."  There is a bunch of difference between marijuana and heroine or meth.  It would be helpful to stick to the subject.  You make some good points and so does Jack.  But when you wander off into general drug use, even prescription drugs can and are being abused, it's hard to stay with you.

 "People like Jack are not working."  What does that have to do with anything on this thread?  I'm not working either but I still get to have an opinion.  So does Jack, and American Pride and everyone else on this thread, including you.  I'm not defending Jack.  I just think if you want to start a discussion on another topic to be discussed, that would be the thing to do.  This topic is marijuana: legalize for all or not.  No one has talked about decriminalizing it as was done today in DC.  I think that will ultimately be the next step and it has been touched on in this thread.

[Jack Wilborn]

What's wrong with morphine, it's legally applied by a pain physician.  20 years of it are a drag. But it the only medication that takes the sharp pain off. Sorry, but if you think that's what makes me tick...

[Jack Wilborn]

Pat, thanks but that's ok. What we are talking about brings out, sometimes very strong feelings if you know you are right about something and the others don't see it, as it's obvious. Which is what I'm trying to say, whether Marijuana, driving under the influence or any other legal/not legal discussion.

I hope to get people to just think, not exercise by the broad jumping conclusions. Just apply this to other things that we have done, and I believe you will see that things like smoking were OK for many years and if we didn't research them, we may have all the deaths, but many would argue that it's natural or some other way explain the fatalities. Many people smoke today, yet there is a very good chance they will succumb to throat or lung cancer, yet won't quit. We know it kills almost half a million people a year and how long did it take researchers to come up with the cause and effect?  Research on Marijuana has been virtually halted since the early 70's how can anyone think there is nothing to learn? Cannabinoid receptors were discovered in the human body in the 90's, just that would be reason to study cannabis. With the power of computers to crunch the data, maybe lots of great medications could be created.  I hope that our drug pharmacopoeia has not stagnated or stalled here, especially with pain, neural controlling drugs.

Thanks Pat, I appreciate the thought.  As for morphine are any of you afraid to tell us of the drugs that your doctor has you on?  I can drive, still do pretty good carpentry and crank out some pretty good programs on the computer in many different languages.  I don't take enough to actually feel the effect even though I know what it feels like, I don't like it.

Jack

[American Pride]

You're right, Rebecca Chuck Norris has a very good blog on the subject. He was very fair and even quotes Dr. Gupta in it. http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/chuck-norris-smokes-marijuana-debate/ He also gives both positive and negative findings on marijuana verses alcohol use. I was especially happy to see the part about driving while under the influence of marijuana being worse. I agree 100% and think that nobody should get behind the wheel if they're under the influence of marijuana, alcohol or any other mind altering substance. I would like to see stricter DUI laws.

There will never be any way of stopping irresponsible people of any age from abusing these things. Kids are stealing their parents prescription drugs to get high so marijuana and alcohol aren't the only problerns for them. I wish more parents would educate their children about alcohol and drug use while they're young enough to listen and not roll their eyes. By the time they're old enough to roll their eyes at you they're already listening to their peers and trouble is on the way.  

In the end, we will all make up our own minds in our own ways based on a variety things. Personally, I don't find marijuana or alcohol use to be 'libertine behavior'. I've seen and experienced the good that it can do so I will support its legalization in any way that I can.

[Jack Wilborn]

Thanks for the link, I just read it.  Seems we have similar feelings on the subject. It would be nice if Rebeca would just sit and watch it (Dr. Gupta's Documentary) and realize not all people have a bone to pick with anyone and some doctors do what's right with drugs.  It's a good vehicle about how we have been mislead with all the successful patients that he found.  Even being a right winger I found it done well.  If she can't bring herself to digest a suggested video, for 50 minutes, I can't take anything she says about it meaningful.

I guess I feel they all think I'm for everyone using it, which I have stated I am not and also that it's a drug and that I don't advocate drugs, really no different then Mr Norris and he also seems to know about Marijuana and I would think at odds with Rebeca as he states it is less potential than alcohol for problems. As many of the links I've sent advocate. He also pointed out items that I did not speak about such as the tax the state would bring in and the destruction of a big line from the Cartels we would take away.  Both would be an advantage to spending more money on it and prisons.

I can't help feeling that one of the problems with Marijuana is that the government has hidden it's uses and people are finding there are uses for it besides, getting high. Also the fact that some of the stuff is tasty and we can't have that either, even though there is nothing in it to make you high.  But like any other DRUG. And should be treated as a drug, as is alcohol, in most cases now. We don't advise kids get into any of it, but at least Marijuana won't initially kill them. I hope most are given the chance, young, maybe by parents, and that will let make a decision to ignore it, I believe.

I believe this because when I was little, don't know how old, but the coffee table was up to my chest, I always watched my dad smoke cigars.  One day he said, go ahead take a puff. I did, immediately turned green and never smoked again or wanted to!

I would have to hunt for the specific information, but my experience with data from the NIDA was, one, small number of people in the groups, two I found an statement that they used a bunch from a drug re-hab group. After that I just quit listening to them as their data was flawed and basis of trial was also flawed. After finding that there are laws preventing them from telling us anything positive, that broke the camels back.

I think this thread is about worn out, does it ever stop or is it alive forever?

Jack

[American Pride]

The debate about marijuana will go on even after marijuana is legal because there will always be those people who are stuck in the perception of it being the worst thing for everybody. I refer to those people as the 'Reefer Madness' choir because they are hooked on the notion that anyone who uses marijuana is automatically a crazed deviant and hooked on the demon weed. Their views are limited to the evils of marijuana, nothing more and nothing less and are humorous at best but generally just dull.(For those not familiar with the 1936 anti-marijuana propaganda movie, "Reefer Madness' here it is on Youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2FZgErvNTE This battle is very old.) Needless to say, I put no stock in the opinions of people who refuse to look fairly at information from both sides... especially when here is so much new information out there. I don't expect everyone to come to the same conclusions when looking at the info because we all have different views on how things should be. What I do hope for is intelligent conversation on the subject that can only come from being well informed.

[Pat J]

This is not as easy a problem as it would appear.  There are good arguments on both sides.  It's true whether we legalize it or not, those who want it will get it.  It has been that way since the 60's.  Legalizing it will probably have higher usage from those who simply don't seek it out but would give it a try if it was available all around.  They might be more likely to be cautious users than the ones using illegally.

I have no problem with medical marijuana and never did.  On that platform, I see it like any other medication.  But there is a med marijuana shop near me and I went in a couple months ago and the owners were smoking and one of them was so wasted he couldn't even carry on a rational conversation.  I nearly got high on the amount of smoke in the shop.  This is the kind of situation that I think most people think of with these shops and why legitimate use of marijuana will get a bad rap.

But at this point, I'm still not in favor of absolute legalization nor am I against it.  I'm still weighing the question.  I don't think it matters anyway.  It's only a matter of time before it is legal.

[Gayla L. Coletto]

I totally agree with Rebecca, well said!

[American Pride]

Were you talking about a head shop (where pipes and smoking accessories are sold) or an actual marijuana dispensary where medical marijuana is sold? I did a lot of online research of dispensaries before I chose the place in Scottsdale for us to go to. It was every bit as clean and professional as I had hoped for. As I said in my post, it could have been a lawyer's or doctor's office if not for the strong aroma of marijuana... but that is usually hard to hide when there is so much of it unwrapped. 

[Jack Wilborn]

Pat thanks for the comment.  I guess it's really been available since the 20's as Hurst wrote how bad the Negroes and Mexicans turn to 'beasts' when using Marijuana.  I assume it's because Villa took back 800,000 prime timber acres that he had purchased.

As I have never been in one of those shops, I'm sorry that's what happened, and I would think that would be like going to a liquor store with a drunk clerk.  American Pride, had a different experience.  And my only problem with the current Medical Marijuana laws are, like other drug, who is abusing. But even still we don't want the governmental entities scrutinizing our and our doctors decisions.  Or for that matter have our medical records open to them.

I do want to point out that if you were in a shop with actual Marijuana smoke you will be 'hot' for metabolites for almost a month, which means an instant DUI, that you really can't fight. The chemical tests are quite sensitive and can detect a metabolite for many days after exposure and you don't have to smoke it, just inhale some.  I'm even surprised that you could go in, without an Medical Marijuana card. Thought that was part of the law...

As I stated before I'm not trying to convince anyone that legalization is the way to go, but if it's a felony or a legalized drug, then I would go for legalization, knowing what prison does to people.  If the drug abuse doesn't ruin your life then the legal system will. Only thing lower in prison is sex offenders (and ex-cops). Kind of like cutting your hand off for stealing bread!

Thanks

Jack

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