Marijuana - Next legislative nightmare?

[Jack Wilborn]

Since Medical Marijuana and recreational Marijuana are making the news, along with two states that have made recreational Marijuana legal for adults, I thought we should open some kind of dialog about it. I'm hoping that many will give their thoughts, opposition and support.

Since many of us have been indoctrinated by the US Government, let’s start there. Most of the information we receive is from NIDA (National Institute Drug Abuse) and it is their charter to deal with drug abuse, not benefit. Reading the latest "Facts about Marijuana", updated January 2014, we find the NIDA, states that it causes many lung related problems, inflammation, cough, phlegm, chest illness, COPD and a heightened risk of lung infections. It also states that Marijuana smokers, who do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work, because of respiratory illnesses. The NIDA’s position can be found in its entirety at

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana.

This is in conflict with a study done by UCLA which ran from 1985 for 20 years and had over 5100 people in the study. They were expecting some of the above problems, including cancer. They were surprised when they found a lower cancer rate, no irritation in the lungs and those that smoke Marijuana had a less lung related health problems than those that smoked tobacco. In fact their study stated that many had lungs that were more capable after smoking Marijuana than before and did no damage relating to COPD. As an asthmatic, I was also surprised. They believe that it's because of THC and other cannabinoids that have anti-inflammatory and immune suppressing properties. An article on the study is available at:

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/10/study-smoking-marijuana-not-linked-with-lung-damage/.

NIDA is aware of the study, but does not address it. Why do they not address this situation of complete conflict? They also offer no alternative study or reasons for their position or statements. This makes it hard to accept for anyone trying to form an opinion, as NIDA does not provide an acceptable argument. There are some links in the healthland article that is interesting to read and I suggest that you read them. Such as

U.S. Rules That Marijuana Has No Medical Use. What Does Science Say?

I feel that other investigations of Marijuana and its effects, preclude anything supported by the US Government. One should stay with studies from other countries and news feeds which don’t have a preconceived agenda. It is interesting that Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Neurosurgeon, Chief Medical Correspondent, CNN wrote an article "Whey I would say NO to pot" in 2009 but then completely reversed his opinion in a documentary called "Weed". This documentary is available via YouTube. You can also read his statements on "why I changed my mind on Weed" at

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/.

In conclusion, I will state that I was trained by the DEA as a police officer when I was going through the academy for the city of Glendale, Arizona. I found, even then, that the government’s statements were questionable at best and downright baseless in others. I suspect that we will see much on the subject in the coming months and years, with attempts to legalize it as a recreational drug and correct some existing problems with the Medical use of Marijuana.

Please give an opinion, along with what you position is based.

[Jack Wilborn]

American Pride, I am glad someone here has the ***** to bring up a truth, as I'm sure you'll get flack.  I was only trying to get people to understand the were have been misled and that there is research that states otherwise.  Even Congress has slammed some of the Governmental groups.. Read this:

http://blog.mpp.org/prohibition/congressional-committee-slams-deput...

Here is the first sentence of the article:

"Members of Congress grilled a representative from the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) Tuesday at a hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and slammed the office for failing to acknowledge key facts about marijuana."

I'm sorry about your husbands condition, but I'm glad he has found some kind of relief, too bad it isn't covered by insurance! I too am on Morphine, for over 20 years and I wish some of the people out there would be in my shoes for a few days and the kind of side effects that it causes, you are willing to try about anything, as I've already done!

Unfortunately those that have already replied will probably never read any of this. A number of countries have done just that, they claim they can't afford a war on drugs and flat let them be legal.  Don't think it's a good idea, but the numbers show it might be on the right track.  You should look at some of the links in the main article I wrote and how the smoke actually helps improve the lung function. I have asthma and I get around smoke and clog up, but I've noticed that when I'm get a whiff of Marijuana smoke I don't have any problem, but I don't think I could ever smoke it.

Did you see Dr. Gupta's presentation on "Weed"?  It talks about how the CBD's help people with nerological problems and has low THC meaning no high associated with it.  I was in Canada a number of years ago and had Ice cream at this place and found this topping that I really loved, it was crunchy and had a nutty taste. Turns our it was Cannabis seed shells crushed. No high, as no THC, but they were good.  Our government won't even let us have this here as it's illegal!

I've been on many drugs, for Fibromyalgia, and many doctors have suggested Medical Marijuana, but since I own guns and don't want to give up any Amendment Rights, I have to pass until the government gets off everyones back about it.

They are trying to amend the Medical Marijuana statue here, so you should read up on it an submit your thoughts, including something about your husband, this always helps. Check this link out, and make sure you send them something..

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#label/MM+Legislation/1447a...

Thanks for chirping in, I hope other read your post.

Jack

[Jack Wilborn]

The last link is my google mail, so sorry if you hosed you up... Here is the correct link:

http://www.azdhs.gov/ops/oacr/rules/rulemakings/active/index.php?pg...

And the place to enter your thoughts..

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RWLS2DZ

I suggest you at least read it...

Jack

[American Pride]

So many people choose to make their minds up without ever doing some serious investigating. They know it all and obviously are the experts... in their own minds. LOL 

Hemp/cannibas seeds are very good for you (http://www.livestrong.com/article/167905-what-are-the-benefits-of-h...) and can be purchased at health food stores. Even Amazon sells them... http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=organic+hemp+seeds&am... .

I have looked at your links and thank you for providing them. I like to look at information on both sides of the issue so I look at most anything that I find to weigh pros and cons. I have heard that marijuana smoke is much better than cigarette smoke but hadn't seen anything before about it being beneficial to the lungs. If I'm not super careful it makes me cough so I prefer a vaporizer. Vaporizers heat but don't burn so there is no smoke, only vapor. I've known people with asthma who were able to use a vaporizer. You can also get a wide selection of edibles to avoid smoking. I understand the concern about owning guns. I've wondered how that will be handled. I would hope that one day it will be treated no differently than alcohol and gun ownership/carry. I would imagine that there are many gun owners who keep alcohol in their homes and have a drink with no worries. 

Thank you for the information about amending the Medical Marijuana statute here. I will be sure to comment. My focus has been fighting illegal immigration/amnesty for over a decade but I can see from some of the comments here that it's time to get involved in this too.

[Jack Wilborn]

I attempted to purchase the crushed cannabis seeds, but was told it was illegal to ship into the USA, so I didn't follow it any more.  I will look, but I'm sure it's a violation of law to as the statues clearly state "Any part of product of Cannabis" or something like that as even hemp rope is illegal to purchase as I tried many years ago, only synthetic rope was available.

I hope they move Marijuana into a lower Schedule, maybe I can see if it helps me as it did your husband and if they do that will cover the gun problem, as it's something like "are you using or addicted to an illegal substance" which is any Schedule I item.  If it's not in Schedule I it's not as bad, although cocaine is a Schedule II drug if I remember correctly.  That would be an easy fix and also add control to Marijuana in that it would be doctor prescribed and not just out there to use.

I will see if I can order some crunchiness for my ice cream!

Jack

[Jack Wilborn]

I am hoping that anyone that has replied or found no reason to reply will read American Pride's reply on page two of this post.  Especially those that have "seen it with their own eyes".  As for Dr. Guptas Documentary, you can also see things there that will make you think, you don't have to believe him.

Jack

[Jack Wilborn]

I think it has a lot to do.  But the discussion was to use your eyes and brain to assist in learning something about items that could have another side that you would understand.  I find most people, like you, envision and have seen many drug users that are as you state.  I think you would be very surprised to know how many around you go home and smoke a little before bed.  And that's it, like calling anyone that uses alcohol a drunk.  Many use it in a way to make things better, like alcohol. Nobody likes a drugged out idiot, like a drunk alcoholic. Most drug users that are addicted would very much like to stop, but can't.  Sure there are ones that don't want to and end up statistics.  Why spend huge amounts of money on prison, there is nothing but a poor return and we end up paying for them the rest of their lives.

As far as Dr. Gupta wikipedia, I haven't read it, shame on me.  I've seen his documentary and what he does show is believable and since most of it has made the news, along the lines he's shown, I can very well believe it.  Aligns with what I've actually seen. Now that congress has jumped on the "Drug Czar" for withholding information about Marijuana from the public, more people need to take another look at it.  Alaska is putting a vote for legalization this year, and it will probably pass.  Colorado has had Medical Marijuana for over 13 years.  They claim no problems. Many people in government are finding problems with the NIDA and how it's run especially some of the laws that govern them prevent any type of research or anything related to Schedule I drugs. It also seems that Republicans have their fair share of problems with items like cocaine.

If you can't trust the scientist with a drug something is wrong. Many are saying that LSD and Ecstasy may be used for psychiatric uses and were being evaluated when that was killed by the government. I don't know but I would trust them with these drugs, as only good could come from it, even if it's found to have problems, at least we'd know, scientifically. I can think of no reason to make laws that keep things from being researched. We know so little about the brain and other things, especially neural pain, let them have it.

I am on limited amounts of morphine, and have had large amounts of morphine to deal with my pain and none of it was successful. Don't know if I even felt it when a few months passed and I didn't realize it.  At that point I had the pump pulled out of me, so I know what pain is and when it won't quit.  I can't say that Marijuana would help, but the side effects with it are definitely less than morphine, considering the other drugs I must take to fix those problems.  I was hoping that people would watch the video, not drag Dr. Gupta through the coals. You can actually see success with patients that could not control this to make it phony.  I don't know what wiki says about him, but I'm not afraid to look, I will and I will make my mind up then.

I still appreciate your responses, from all of you.  Lets me know the sort I run with...

Jack

[Archie M. Dicksion]

Rebecca, it appears pretty obvious. He uses marijuana, he grows marijuana and he wants all of us to pat him on the head and tell him it is ok that we will legalize it so that he does not go to jail for growing and selling the stuff. do lots of people use the stuff, yes, is the some small medical use for the stuff, probably yes. The only reason that I can see to legalize the stuff is first, for the revenue and second stop organized crime from producing and selling foisting it upon 2nd and 3rd graders to create addicted future customers.

As for Jack, oh well, it appears he is a lost cause who still thinks he is at Haight-Asbury.

[Jack Wilborn]

If you are speaking about me, you are dead wrong. I have not been around any Marijuana for 30 years, except for my action as a police officer. I'd take a drug test at any time any of you will pay for it. All I want with this discussion is that we are used to things, like Marijuana having bad effects on you.  I felt the same, even with my little experience with it in high school.

I'm speaking about things like cigarettes, which were pretty acceptable in the 60's and 70's and without research, not to mention the death toll, we pretty much accepted it as OK.  The same with psychiatric patients being so badly treated, it was the people involved in it that noticed and stood up for a change in how we did things.  At least since the 70's it has been illegal to do research on any Schedule I drug, banning research is like burning books, you throw away any knowledge that is known for propaganda and it's accepted by the general public.  I would be the last to think LSD or Ecstasy has any valid use in medicine, but the science people say there is and was doing invaluable research on it in the 60's and early 70's.  We should not stop research on any drug, by outlawing it totally．

I picked Marijuana because as I was arresting people, mostly 18 year old, and seeing that they could not really work anywhere because of the conviction and some getting numerous years in prison the punishment did not fit the crime.  Most drug users are doing this to themselves and police are not trained to handle this type of behavior. Prison will not change an addict, you're only hope is counseling to get them to want to quit, if they don't want to it won't happen. 

I felt Marijuana was a good choice as I have personally seen MS patients control some of the very bad symptoms of MS such as muscle control and shacking.  These people were not faking it, I don't think you can fake that. Which is a reason I spoke about Dr. Gupta's documentary where there is a 3 year old girl that doctors tell them will not live the year as her spasms are so severe that she will break her own spine or neck. There is no medication for this child and she could not learn anything, with hundreds of spasms a day.  They found a strain of Marijuana, which has very low THC and high CBD's that controlled her spasms and today she can go to school and is doing quite well. I don't believe that she was or could be faking this to get someone high with something that can't get you high. The fight was with people that didn't want to even see if it helped, just let her die.  If this was your child would you just let her die?  Even if Marijuana had bad side effects would you just let her die?  This conversation is not about Marijuana, it's about being misled for many years and only now are the politicians and legislators starting to realize that they also have been misled. How many other things are we just going to go along with if there is no research to make the practice of medicine and development of drugs a reality. 

There are many petitions going from congress to the president to move Marijuana from a Schedule I, which I applaud, as research and development of new drugs and more focused drugs to come on the market. Sativex, is in it's third phase of clinical trials for use by terminal cancer patients as a pain control and getting very good results, so it may be available in the US by this year.  With the majority of people here, it would never even be allowed to be developed or tested. It is approved by over 20 countries, including Canada.

I myself was surprised that getting Marijuana for research was such a hassle.  It is next to impossible to get the proper permits and blessing to begin the process, but getting the actual drug is very difficult and extremely expensive. Since it's just a weed, it should be cheap, but law makes it expensive. I see I picked the right item to cause some communication between those that have fixed position on Marijuana and hope they understand that it doesn't stop with Marijuana, it covers everything we use in todays world.

Would you stick your head in a microwave?  Even a low powered one? Cell phones are the frequency of microwaves and we won't know about there effect for many years. Especially on children as they are the first that will pay for anything we overlook. It took over 20 year for asbestos to come into the light as very dangerous, for the almighty buck. How many years did we smoke? What does it take to convince some people?

Would you feel better if Marijuana was a Schedule III drug?  Or would you still believe it's has no medicinal value?

Thanks for the feedback.

Jack

[Pat J]

But marijuana is NOT legal in CA.  But why are you so rude to Jack?  Can't he have an opinion different from yours and both of you still be civil?  Jack seems pretty civil even though you are continuously unpleasant to him.  I like this site because it's always been very civil between people who disagree.

[Jack Wilborn]

I hope to think I called anyone stupid, if so I apologize, as I tried many years ago to remove that from my vocabulary, and to not directed it at people. Ignorance is different, as we are all ignorant, until we learn things and put them together into a useful grouping.  We spend our whole life ignorant of certain things. Ignorance can be corrected, stupidity cannot.

If there was any drug that would take the pain I live with away I'd be on it in a heartbeat. I'm sorry you feel that anyone taking any narcotic is a doper and stoned all the time. That is not the case. I'm sorry if you think chronic pain suffering should be tolerated and not dealt with using known medications.

I don't know what you claim I lied about, please inform me.  I believed what I put was supported by a link of origin or was stated as my opinion. Almost all was done by groups that have done this for years and is supported by their data.  UCLA has done hundreds, if not more, clinical trials and you probably take drugs that when through their system, so if you don't like their results, maybe you should check your drugs. No one has done a 20 year, data supported study of over 5000 persons on the effect of Marijuana on the body, including the lungs.  Even I was surprised by their findings on the lungs as an asthma sufferer. As much as it seems wrong, I still support their findings.

Congress is changing some of the laws that prevent governmental groups, such as the NIDA from saying what congress calls "the truth about drugs" and in particular Marijuana. And in the general context of Schedule I drugs. These laws were passed by legislature and none, that I can find, were supported by any medical sources.  All had to do the illegal drug trade, which we created anyway.

I deleted a section, as the focus needs and should be using information in this age to better ourself and our use of knowledge.

But again, this is about misconceptions and what we should do to correct them. Many of the things we took for granted as we grew up, research has changed.  Such as smoking, even though it was documented (I believe you) in the 30's I can find earlier documentation from doctors that say marijuana is less harmful than alcohol, not only from the 30's but from 18th century.  Unfortunately public opinion took over. And most of the 'problems' that Marijuana causes are unfounded in any research anywhere, such as violence.

Jack

[Pat J]

Rebecca: I've read through all these posts and no where did I find that anyone was trying to lie (that's a very strong word when some other word would be more correct and more persuasive) to you or called you any names or inferred anyone is stupid... except in some posts you imply that Jack is stupid but you don't use that word.  I resent such an attitude on this site and would prefer you speak with more respect for anyone who does not agree with you, which you seem to demand of Jack.  I don't know either of you but really, vitriol doesn't go far in trying to persuade anyone to your side.  It's unfortunate because you may have the right message.  I don't know because I get bogged down in your tone.  At this point, there are still two sides to this question and I don't see that there is clear evidence either way.  From a specifically societal perspective, I'm against full legalization of marijuana but I am in favor of closely controlled medical marijuana.  But not the way it is done in CA with a head shop posing as a med shop on every corner.  Maybe AZ will more tightly control the med side.

[Jack Wilborn]

Pat, again thanks. I don't care about  your position on Marijuana as it's really immaterial to the cases we are speaking.  What makes me furious is that, from what I can read and understand from sources that are not our government, the information is far from having any grounds of being correct.  Even if you don't believe UCLA, which is anyones choice, you really can't discard it as biased as they have done a vast number of clinical trials.  The doctors (and I admit, I) was expecting lung damage like tobacco causes since Marijuana has a lot of the tars that tobacco also contains.  Instead they found many of the tests that determine lung function showed the lungs of casual users actually became better. I have taken these test as I am on Amiodarone, a particular nasty medication, and recognize some of the terms. A doctor, not associated with the study stated it was the things in Marijuana (the cannabinoids, THC and CBD's) that are analgesics and anti-inflammatory agents that cause the lungs not to become inflamed, which tobacco does, and the results are no causal affect of COPD that tobacco causes.  I have asthma and I was very suspicious that this smoke would cause me the same grief that tobacco smoke does. After reading the NIDA 'truth' about drugs and seeing the description of all the lung damage and other detrimental effects on the lungs and that they knew about his research, which was the 20 year, 5115 person study, I was not happy.

As a side note, in case you are interested, the doctor stated he thought the way Marijuana was smoked and that it doesn't inflame the lungs that lung function was increased. As smokers take a really deep breath and hold it.  This repetitively actually increases lung function.

I would very much like to government to 'come clean' about the effects and found they are legislated to NOT give us the information.  Did you know they legislated to NOT tell you about anything good? This infuriates me, I don't know about you.  Some congress members are trying to rectify this (of course they are D, can't say it here!)  I just believe anyone that has any compassion for the sick, would want to know more.  I'm sure some just won't take any of the information positive.  I hope most of you have read American Pride story about her husband, if that doesn't help, I don't think any of this will do any good about any topic.  There has never been a death from Marijuana, only to this date and probably won't be.  If I remember correctly it takes about 50 pounds taken quickly to cause a toxic affect. From what I understand you're probably asleep long before then!

I also feel that microwaves from phones might be found to have bad affects on children. I remember talking to an a radio operator that, while in the military, he installed radar equipment in Alaska to detect the Russian approach and he told me they used to stand in front of the antenna when they were cold and turned it on for a short period of time to warm up.  They didn't realize that were microwaving themselves!  So I guess we can all become 'less ignorant' if we look and use our brains to detect questionable information from real.